While this kind of thinking can drive you mad and unlikeable since covid I became so depressed that I don't care anymore. While inside me I still have these thoughts in my smallest circle (wife and son) I just try to enjoy time as much as possible.
This disquisition made for nourishing reading, and there is plenty to ruminate on. In truth, I had personally arrived at the kernel of these premises independently, but I've not been able to elaborate and expand to anywhere the extent nor the subtlety of your exposition.
A while back I came across a neuroscience research paper specifically investigating the timing of conscious decision-making. The paper described studies by Libet et al.,(*) who found that brain activity related to motor actions occurs before individuals consciously perceive the decision to act. The results challenged the notion of free will by suggesting that many decisions may be initiated subconsciously prior to conscious awareness, reinforcing the argument that our choices might be predetermined by neural processes.
My appetite whet, I'm going to read your other related articles.
(*) Libet, B., Gleason, C. A., Wright, W., & Pearl, D. K. (1983). "Time of Conscious Intention to Act in Relation to Onset of Cerebral Activity (Readiness Potential): The Unconscious Initiation of a Freely Voluntary Act." Brain, 106(3), 623-642. This study is often cited in discussions surrounding free will and neuroscience
Thank you for your comment. This is insightful. Yes, unfortunately this indicates that we're probably unable and unworthy of freedom in general. Not the happiest of realizations...
Wow, I was just sharing with my wife how we don’t really have free will last night. You put into words elegantly what my mind was piecing together. Thanks for this piece
The crazy thing is that I know not a thing on this earth or universe is free but I still find myself wondering why people act this way or that way, getting upset about it until something clicks in my brain and for the thousandth time I realize oh yes of course no one can help who or what we are and I feel a wonderful calm flow over me again.
Free will has nothing to do with the metaphysical. So you are correct to say that I didn’t earn my physical attributes or even my intelligence. Free will is agency. Free will is consciousness. Agency is consciousness in action. An individual is free to be in focus and act or alternatively act without focusing. That is free will.
Yes and I loved it. I reread it this morning. What I love is how you rage about this subject. You are a variant of a free will skeptic married to a weak compatibilist. Basically you sound like a contradiction but your passion makes it work. Your writing keeps open the possibility of God and in doing so asks some invalid questions (but I respect and enjoy that honesty. It reminds me of someone I used to know.
“why we exist; what is our purpose, and how do we derive true meaning from an existence forced upon us without even the courtesy of an explanation?”
Why do we exist or any variant of this question is an invalid question. It is invalid because it presupposes that our existence was intentionally caused by an agent. What is our purpose is the logical next invalid question: without an intelligent agent to give us purpose this inquiry falls flat. You finally question about finding meaning or explanation is a form of the age old question: what is the meaning of life?
Your form is a beautiful variant but just as invalid. I recommend reading Galt’s speech from Atlas Shrugged for the best explanation of this issue (and many others including free will).
You make a case for absurdism then: if there is no agent or causality in our existence, then existence is absurd. How does Atlas Shrugged explain this issue? I confess I’ve never read it
Not absurdism. The universe is ordered and can be understood. Man is a small part of reality or the universe, if you prefer. We can refer to Natural Selection or evolution and leave the matter there.
Philosophy should remain in the domain of common knowledge, not scientific knowledge.
Daniel Dennett loves to mix philosophy with science. That’s all well and good but if you need to have an understanding of subatomic particles your discussion has departed from common sense philosophy and has entered into the domain of science or the philosophy of science.
I am well versed in all domains of human knowledge, but I refuse to stoop to scientific theories, no matter how well they stand up to challenges.
Existence exists. Consciousness exists. Try denying those axioms and see where that leaves you. All entities can be identified by their respective natures. Consciousness is identification. (Credit: Ayn Rand)
So you are too young to have lived through the dictatorship. Really, the Hellenic Republic is in sad shape. Instead of whoring for tourist dollars it should become more self-reliant, eat some of its own corrupt and tell the EU to fuck itself and join BRICS.
I do WTF I want, when I want, and where I want, Rex. Be a non-conformist. Lose the fear that you might be punished. I make the rules here. I don't follow rules others say should be followed. I don't fear punishment, a cage or getting beat down. Nor do I fear hunger, being uncomfortable, pain or death. No fear is the prime factor in don't give a Fk LaLa Land.
I don't sign contracts ever and don't take on debt ever.
Our current life and circumstances are not random. We are reaping what we have sown, and our actions and desires seed our future incarnations, forms, families and conditions. We've been part of creation since the first beginning of time, the freedom of will we had is so constrained now by our past - we are left only with freedom of our attitude to life.
Everything is connected. We interact with family, friends, employers, colleagues, children and unconsciously sow good and bad deeds in relation to the Law that governs everything. The Creator willed the Creation into being, and placed his greatest devotee in charge of the Creation. This power (negative) has the role of jailer, with the objective of retaining souls within his dominion. The negative power is Just. Zero love. This entrapment continues through countless lives until the soul tires of its sojourn. Then the inate desire to escape grows and the Creator draws that soul into contact with a living realized soul to be taught the method of practice to detach the mind from the sense pleasures and attach it to the greatest pleasure - the Divine Melody (logos, word, holy ghost, kalma and many other names) within each of us. When the mind tastes this greater pleasure it automatically let's go of all lesser sensory pleasures and begins it's homeward journey within. In the company of the divine teacher that initiated the soul onto the path. Our engagement with creation develops our attitude. We learn (very very slowly) over time.
Good topic and a reminder of what I really want to do with my life - haha.
My best example of non existing free will is when the so called hard working class despises "lazy" poeple. The hard working poeple do not understand that they HAVE to go to work because otherwise they have no purpose in THEIR life. On the other hand you can not force poeple to go to a construction site or into office till 65 every day, week and year and to repay to society with taxes, children and charity work. That is not their purpose what they want to do with THEIR life.
One of my favorite mental games especially when having election and budget discussions...
Good post. Love it.
While this kind of thinking can drive you mad and unlikeable since covid I became so depressed that I don't care anymore. While inside me I still have these thoughts in my smallest circle (wife and son) I just try to enjoy time as much as possible.
This disquisition made for nourishing reading, and there is plenty to ruminate on. In truth, I had personally arrived at the kernel of these premises independently, but I've not been able to elaborate and expand to anywhere the extent nor the subtlety of your exposition.
A while back I came across a neuroscience research paper specifically investigating the timing of conscious decision-making. The paper described studies by Libet et al.,(*) who found that brain activity related to motor actions occurs before individuals consciously perceive the decision to act. The results challenged the notion of free will by suggesting that many decisions may be initiated subconsciously prior to conscious awareness, reinforcing the argument that our choices might be predetermined by neural processes.
My appetite whet, I'm going to read your other related articles.
(*) Libet, B., Gleason, C. A., Wright, W., & Pearl, D. K. (1983). "Time of Conscious Intention to Act in Relation to Onset of Cerebral Activity (Readiness Potential): The Unconscious Initiation of a Freely Voluntary Act." Brain, 106(3), 623-642. This study is often cited in discussions surrounding free will and neuroscience
Thank you for your comment. This is insightful. Yes, unfortunately this indicates that we're probably unable and unworthy of freedom in general. Not the happiest of realizations...
Well, at least now I don't have to feel so bad about being such a f?ck-up ;-)
Man, we're all fuckups, just different kinds
Wow, I was just sharing with my wife how we don’t really have free will last night. You put into words elegantly what my mind was piecing together. Thanks for this piece
Thanks Tommy. I’m glad we see eye to eye. Still, having no free will does not free us from accountability
The crazy thing is that I know not a thing on this earth or universe is free but I still find myself wondering why people act this way or that way, getting upset about it until something clicks in my brain and for the thousandth time I realize oh yes of course no one can help who or what we are and I feel a wonderful calm flow over me again.
Good points. It is liberating to accept this reality. Like levity
Free will has nothing to do with the metaphysical. So you are correct to say that I didn’t earn my physical attributes or even my intelligence. Free will is agency. Free will is consciousness. Agency is consciousness in action. An individual is free to be in focus and act or alternatively act without focusing. That is free will.
Did you actually read the post?
Yes and I loved it. I reread it this morning. What I love is how you rage about this subject. You are a variant of a free will skeptic married to a weak compatibilist. Basically you sound like a contradiction but your passion makes it work. Your writing keeps open the possibility of God and in doing so asks some invalid questions (but I respect and enjoy that honesty. It reminds me of someone I used to know.
Invalid questions?
“why we exist; what is our purpose, and how do we derive true meaning from an existence forced upon us without even the courtesy of an explanation?”
Why do we exist or any variant of this question is an invalid question. It is invalid because it presupposes that our existence was intentionally caused by an agent. What is our purpose is the logical next invalid question: without an intelligent agent to give us purpose this inquiry falls flat. You finally question about finding meaning or explanation is a form of the age old question: what is the meaning of life?
Your form is a beautiful variant but just as invalid. I recommend reading Galt’s speech from Atlas Shrugged for the best explanation of this issue (and many others including free will).
You make a case for absurdism then: if there is no agent or causality in our existence, then existence is absurd. How does Atlas Shrugged explain this issue? I confess I’ve never read it
Not absurdism. The universe is ordered and can be understood. Man is a small part of reality or the universe, if you prefer. We can refer to Natural Selection or evolution and leave the matter there.
Philosophy should remain in the domain of common knowledge, not scientific knowledge.
Daniel Dennett loves to mix philosophy with science. That’s all well and good but if you need to have an understanding of subatomic particles your discussion has departed from common sense philosophy and has entered into the domain of science or the philosophy of science.
I am well versed in all domains of human knowledge, but I refuse to stoop to scientific theories, no matter how well they stand up to challenges.
Existence exists. Consciousness exists. Try denying those axioms and see where that leaves you. All entities can be identified by their respective natures. Consciousness is identification. (Credit: Ayn Rand)
Read it
So you are too young to have lived through the dictatorship. Really, the Hellenic Republic is in sad shape. Instead of whoring for tourist dollars it should become more self-reliant, eat some of its own corrupt and tell the EU to fuck itself and join BRICS.
wtf are you even goin on about?
I do WTF I want, when I want, and where I want, Rex. Be a non-conformist. Lose the fear that you might be punished. I make the rules here. I don't follow rules others say should be followed. I don't fear punishment, a cage or getting beat down. Nor do I fear hunger, being uncomfortable, pain or death. No fear is the prime factor in don't give a Fk LaLa Land.
I don't sign contracts ever and don't take on debt ever.
Our current life and circumstances are not random. We are reaping what we have sown, and our actions and desires seed our future incarnations, forms, families and conditions. We've been part of creation since the first beginning of time, the freedom of will we had is so constrained now by our past - we are left only with freedom of our attitude to life.
Still, why have we sown what we've sown? What made creation this way? What detemrins our attitude of life?
Everything is connected. We interact with family, friends, employers, colleagues, children and unconsciously sow good and bad deeds in relation to the Law that governs everything. The Creator willed the Creation into being, and placed his greatest devotee in charge of the Creation. This power (negative) has the role of jailer, with the objective of retaining souls within his dominion. The negative power is Just. Zero love. This entrapment continues through countless lives until the soul tires of its sojourn. Then the inate desire to escape grows and the Creator draws that soul into contact with a living realized soul to be taught the method of practice to detach the mind from the sense pleasures and attach it to the greatest pleasure - the Divine Melody (logos, word, holy ghost, kalma and many other names) within each of us. When the mind tastes this greater pleasure it automatically let's go of all lesser sensory pleasures and begins it's homeward journey within. In the company of the divine teacher that initiated the soul onto the path. Our engagement with creation develops our attitude. We learn (very very slowly) over time.
Good topic and a reminder of what I really want to do with my life - haha.
My best example of non existing free will is when the so called hard working class despises "lazy" poeple. The hard working poeple do not understand that they HAVE to go to work because otherwise they have no purpose in THEIR life. On the other hand you can not force poeple to go to a construction site or into office till 65 every day, week and year and to repay to society with taxes, children and charity work. That is not their purpose what they want to do with THEIR life.
One of my favorite mental games especially when having election and budget discussions...